The Likability Trap: Navigating the Politics of Personality

Ever felt like being the nice one, the funny one, or the quiet one meant not being taken seriously at work? In this episode, Kristy and Deb get real about the ways personality and perception play into how we’re treated—and how we treat others. From being underestimated to learning how (and when) to speak up, this one’s full of honest stories, a little laughter, and those “wait… is it just me?” moments.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:34 Kristy's Energy Drink Addiction
• 3:53 Being Nice Girls in Corporate
• 8:40 You Should Know This One Deb
• 13:49 Why Asking Questions Is GOOD!
• 15:54 Perceptions and Diversity
• 19:07 Am I The Problem?
• 24:31 Masking
• 30:22 How Being Nice Costs You $$$$
• 35:33 How to Be Yourself
• 44:42 Get To Know The Team Member!

Transcript

mhm people who have actual confidence don't speak to people like that people who are self assured and like confident they don't have to speak to people like that you're right that does typically come from an insecurity there's no reason that he would need to put you down like that wouldn't it be nice to like call him out on that uh we got to look him up we got to look him up he is old and unhappy somewhere but I want to see it i need to know i want to make sure i want to make sure of it

i forgot what question she sent me to ask you that's for the end but I'll find it eventually i just got to make sure it's ready oh I found it okay we're going to be good on that i still have a I still have a headache um let's tell everybody about my new my new energy drink plan yes let's I'm very I was very This new situation is tough for me we're gonna get this set up is it too i'm close enough i can move it yeah but now you're hitting your mic and that makes noise and I can't move it i can't move it with one hand there we go okay it's a little better anyway hi hi deb's back with me today hello we just loved having her so much last time if you made it through the last conversation and you're back you're our people come hang out with us sometime anyway back to my um energy drink saga so um everyone has deep concerns for me here about my energy drink consumption um they think I'm going to die and I have stripped back within the last week because I'm like I don't know it's expensive for one that's probably my biggest I'm like this is like a this is like a smoking addiction i'm I'm really So tell everybody what you were consuming before you started scaling back so they understand okay what baseline was for you probably like 3 months ago i'm talking like mid my dad is dying i was just like doing whatever I had to do to survive chemical-wise to survive and on a caffeine chemical level was probably doing like three two probably three cups of coffee a day and an energy drink okay the caffeine alone that's a lot um and so within the last like couple of months I stripped back to just like one cup of coffee a day and then an energy drink a day and then and that was either I kind of like switched between Celsius Peach Vibes uh um Red Bull sugar-free or an Aroma Joe's Rush all sugar-free because that makes it better um I love aspartane um and so within the last like week I'm like "Okay I'm going to try going like a week without an energy drink and just like seeing if I see what happens let's see if I like actually like can detox a little and if my body like thanks me and I sleep differently better whatever and instead what it gifted me with is a horrific migraine that I cannot shake mhm and I'm not shocked by that but it it actually weirdly did take me a couple days to click into my brain oh this is probably why I have this horrific migraine feel like dying but anyway um I discovered that the store has packets of energy drink powder instead of cans because I'm not going to waste a whole can like to wean off and then like just pour a little into my thing and then waste a whole can they're very expensive yeah um but I found the packets and so I'm doing like a part of a packet with like like Propel powder and seltzer so that's my new concoction anyway anyway we digress we digress what are we talking about today today we're talking Okay so this I don't even remember how we started talking about this like last week after we recorded our podcast okay but I don't remember how it came up we're talking about how we're just like such nice people not in that way that wasn't how it came we are just the nicest people ever now I don't remember how it came into conversation but we were talking about on some way it came up about how being I don't we were okay jokes aside we're not talking about how we're just like such nice people but we're talking about how certain personalities like ours like sometimes how that can be perceived perceived and how it can like backfire on like if you are like okay I'll speak for myself and and let you speak for yourself i am very generally like like happy go-lucky silly goofy playful i'm I'm just like funny girl and how that sometimes affects me negatively in a corporate world because it it makes me sometimes not be taken seriously i am also um I look young for my age i'm I'm short i'm little and you're you put off little sister vibes i do and um I don't know whether I consider myself young or not but I guess maybe in a corporate world like early I'm not early 30s anymore no mid30s is still somewhat young and I think experiences I had when I was younger I'll go with that instead um how it did affect me negatively not being taken seriously um how I have seen in throughout my life like men having more advantages than me or even just like women that were much more serious or older come across more assertive come across more assertive or just the way that being just like playful and fun and young and and nice have really cost me probably literally cost me money cost me money and um cost me getting like walked all over and you were saying something similar i all of the above everything you've said I can relate to um I also tend to I act younger than I not intentionally that's just Yeah um people are often surprised to find out how old I am so it's like I've put in the years to earn respect in scenarios but I may not view myself that way and then no one else will if you don't view yourself you know like I might question myself more um but I do also like I tend to try to bring a positive energy and I don't want to bring anybody else down yeah so if I'm I tend to compartmentalize the hard stuff so that I'm not putting that on anybody else but then that can sometimes be taken as oh well you're not taking this situation serious enough exactly and it's like no this is how I have to um compartmentalize this so that I can still function and do what needs to be done even though this I know the situation is serious but that doesn't mean I can't be you know playing music and singing along and being silly with my kid you know like there's just things um that's just my personality and then also I mean we're not we're not going to get into childhood trauma on this episode of the Free Dive podcast um but there are things that kind of instilled early on don't rock the boat don't cause any more problems there's enough stuff going on what you might be dealing with probably not that big a deal just deal with it yourself and make everybody else's life easier around you and that definitely has bitten me in the butt more time than more than once in work settings um in family settings and all sorts of situations so it's been trying to figure out as I am older now no longer 30s barely 40s still not for much longer um learning how to not just stand up for myself but even just to speak up in general yeah like to accept that hey the the opinion the the thoughts I have on this situation on this work call or whatever like my thoughts are equally as valid as anybody else's my questions don't mean I'm stupid yes that's been a big one for me um and I have had past employment employers that did talk down to me and did criticize me for not knowing something that he thought I should have known Yeah when in reality it was something I was told specifically do not do this pass this off to a different department do not quote prices that's not your job like send it off to someone to quote the price and then new person comes in this was when I was this particular story i was early 20s maybe like 21 22 right and I had worked at this company for a couple of years maybe I was 23 by then and it was a a propane oil company and in the customer service department i had a bunch of different jobs in there i was good at my job i had no problems i dealt with the customers well like I was good at what I was doing there and this new propane service manager whatever came in and I was transferring a call like this person wants a quote for propane because for those of you who don't know propane cost depends on how much you use the more gallons you use the lower your price per gallon so there was a whole like it wasn't like you call in what's the price of oil and it's a flat price propane doesn't work that way yeah so we were told "Do not quote prices send it to the department." And this new guy is just like "Come on Deb you know this one what do you think their price would be?" And it was new and he was new he was probably in his early 40s at the time and just came in with that condescending and I'm like "Excuse me sir." This is all in my head i just stood there like I didn't even know what to say i just felt so tiny and I'm like well we were never trained to do that that would have lit a fire under me and I didn't say anything i left that day i cried the whole ride home and there had been some other stuff that had been going on that I was like I was ready to be done like I was getting the price of oil went up to $2 a gallon like overnight and it had been like less than a dollar a gallon back then we're talking a long time this is like 25 years ago 20 years ago so this is a different time than now but it was like there was a big jump and I was getting like screamed at on the phone by customers at 7:00 in the morning like sworn at they just unleashed everything on us like it was our fault regardless also it sounds like it wasn't your job to know it was his like why is he saying to you with that part yeah you know this one Deb come on like I'm I'm busy doing more important things you can't handle this yourself well I was specifically told by the owner not to do that it's so condescending so demeaning so to talk to me like that and that I gave my notice within a very short time after that i'm like I can't I can't do this anymore do you think it's because because Okay so he dynamics there dynamics he's new y but he's a man and he's older a lot older do you think it was because like in any other scenario at a company someone new coming in talking to someone who's been there for years that's super inappropriate i mean it's inappropriate anyway no one should be talking to anyone like that but talking to someone who's been there for years I mean so out of line and not called for but do you think it's because you were younger do you think it's because you were a female do you think it was a little bit of both do you think it was something else i think it was a lot of things i think it was those he was in a higher position he was in a higher position i was just a customer service rep which became a very pivotal story for myself that I've had to deal with for years and still have to like not just see myself as oh I'm only good enough to answer the phone when that's when I look at it logically and list out all the things that I have done in my life it's like yeah that's BS yeah yeah but in those moments I still this is this is honestly still been a challenge with me even now like and it's nobody else's fault but I am more likely to like if I have a question in a meeting I feel very self-conscious asking the question in a big group meeting i would rather one-on-one ask somebody that I know will have the answer after the fact because you'll feel dumb because I don't want to feel dumb like "Oh what are they going to think if I ask a question i really should know the because that that brings in my head come on Deb you should know this by now you've been doing this for how many years now you should know the and that I never connected it to that we're having we're having aha moments here." Aha moment here oh screw that guy that line will ring in my head you should know this they're going to think you should know this they're going to wonder what you've been doing for the last three years that is one Dub and I know that's not the case and I watch other people ask questions valid questions very valid questions i mean we work with a lot of different clients there's a lot of projects here no one can know everything about all of the clients at any given time you know like everybody has their lane and and I watch other people with way more experience ask questions yeah maybe the same question a few times because just something about it is just not clicking and they don't hesitate to ask the question right why am I hesitating to ask the question right or when when people do ask questions in meetings some often times I feel like it's it almost makes them look more intelligent because it's almost like wow what a creative thinker I wouldn't have thought to ask that brings up a great thought a great idea instead of making them look like okay idiot the answer's obvious but it feels like that because you should know this one Deb right right and it's like and that that shouldn't be the case and I don't know how much of it is the nice girl thing like just trying to or it's not even just nice just not you know I want to fly under the radar just so I don't get any any attacks and no one here has ever shown any inclination of being that way they've been the complete opposite but that that's still in there and that's hard to and then it does hold you back like what more could you be doing if you were like how how is that being perceived not asking the questions does it show that you're does it is it interpreted that you're not as engaged that you're not as valuable an asset and so that brings up like a B like so I think about this all the time and this is what I want to talk about is like how do you think like this is a question I ask myself this is like something I'm I want your opinion on how do you think like presenting yourself not just even just at work but like in the world like makes a difference on how people treat you back for instance like how you how you dress how you present your face if you know if if you've ever been to um I mean anything a meeting a a first date anything and you come in very light and friendly and just very get cute and charming and just like very mousy like people treat you one way or if I walk in with my RBF on and just very cold and stoic and quiet and mysterious and waiting and I sit down quiet you know what I mean if there's there's different angles to come at things that can be very intimidating if I walk into things in a very intimidating cold way I get treated very different i've tested this and I get treated very differently versus me just bouncing on into work or into a a family dinner or a date or into the grocery store and how I get treated by a cashier versus me just being super friendly silly whatever people treat you differently and how much am I willing to change who I am as a person because it's it is not who I am most of the time unless I'm having a bad day to to put on this fall i'm not willing I'm not willing to show up as a different person right so that I will gain an additional level of respect it shouldn't have to be yeah no I agree with that like it it is we all need to kind of check our perceptions of people mhm i feel like cuz we were talking about this earlier off camerara like how we can um run into this issue with how we perceive people like there's there's all sorts of different ways we might perceive someone based on what they are presenting nice or otherwise like for me personally I am very unsettled by people I can't read and especially that type that like if you come in and you're like especially a female you're super assertive and you just are confident and like you don't it's like you're holding your cards clo like you can't you can't just you can't tell where you stand with them right and anything like that I get super uncomfortable with yeah um and then I tend to mask more and which ma which mask do you go for do you go for like a I need to be even more friendly or I need to retreat into also being I need to retreat i need to just not rock the boat i I feel like I have to mask more like match because who I really not not matching their energy i just kind of want to fly under the radar and I'll just I'll be pleasant and friendly and not like but I also am more guarded I guess in those type of situations if I don't know where I stand with you I'm more uneasy yeah yeah well and going back to what you started to say about how so this is like a it it goes both ways right like are we are we also doing this to other people like am I is this something that I'm doing am I am I treating older people for instance like like just with this judgment of like they're all just all kind of old and dumb and don't know how to use technology or don't don't know how the modern world works can't keep up with the Gen Z or am I treating younger people coming in like oh those millennials oh those have no experience you are just new to this industry and you know nothing yeah so I'm going to just I'm going to I'm writing off a whole generation i'm going to treat you like that god treated you like they're there you you know you deserve minimum wage cuz you know nothing and I'm going to talk to you like you're five because you know nothing you deserve to be treated subhuman cuz you haven't earned it yet am I doing that right it's something really good to ask myself because I can't stand it to be treated any differently because of how I look and present for who I am before someone gets to know if that's true right you know yeah am I doing it right and I find for me like I especially given some of these past experiences and the one that I I told you was not the only one that I've had but for me in um not assuming that all men are going to be that condescending like that and I've been challenged with that and I know some of them are going to be watching this um you guys are awesome but like I have like my whole department that I am part of is all men yeah and we have meetings every week and they're totally going to call me out on this after they watch this episode but I catch myself still just like okay like just I'll I'll pause before I say something or I'm like oh is this going to be the thing I say that's going to make everybody raise an eyebrow at me as as the dumb girl who doesn't know what she's you know like that and they've never acted in a way I need to make that clear like they've never treated me that way but there's always that like is this going to be the thing I say that's going to like oh there it is there it is oh cute little Deb there she doesn't know what she's doing again like whereas I feel like instead they're all really good the men on this team are really good at at praising us for for doing a good job or I'm not going to name I'm not going to name names one of them a couple weeks ago after we got off of a meeting and messaged me privately and was like "You know what i love I love seeing you in like I really enjoy like fun Christy wearing pink fur mode but like I also really enjoyed watching you in like boss lady mode in that meeting today like that was intimidating and I loved it and I was like "Thank you so much." That was like an amazing an amazing compliment thank you because I can we we are all multifaceted right like I can sit here in my fur and and laugh and joke and be stupid but when it comes down to business like I can get down to business and so it I that is why I really do get triggered and angry when I am underestimated and just like she's just little goofball baby sister who doesn't know anything no brains in her head you know she's just cuz she's just so silly doing those Tik Toks and just you know not working there's nothing when I am I don't need to stand up here and defend myself but I will i am educated and been doing this for you know over eight years and I have a ton of knowledge on many things that no one else here can do like right well yeah exactly and like I've even thinking too like this may be like oh this is the first time I've worked for an agency doing marketing whatever it's like my husband has had his own business the entire time we've been married which is 28 years now and I've done all the marketing i've done direct mail i've done like I've managed all of that stuff for years for his business for our business together we've done rental properties we've done like I had my own business as a VA before I came here like I've done I've gone I've taken the classes on the social media marketing i've taken the classes on email market it's like yeah I've got more experience than I feel like is valid i don't know why it's like I always downplay and that is not beneficial in a corporate or agency or whatever environment because like you said like it is it holding you back by not like you're like "No look I know what I'm I I may not know everything but I'm putting the time in if I don't know it I'm going to figure it out and I'm going to do a good job at it because that's what we do you know and not giving ourselves credit why is anyone else going to give us credit if we don't give ourselves credit that's a good point that's a really good point that's it's a constant work in progress yeah and so going back to masking it's like do you do you find yourself doing that do you feel like it is justified doing that how much do you feel like you need to do that i probably don't need to as much as I do um I will say with that it's funny i've never I've heard the f the term masking more in recent years with you see more like ADHD adult women getting diagnosed and all that stuff like it's it's everywhere it's all that's through all my Instagram feed and whatnot i am one of those people um that discovered this with a child getting diagnosed it's like wait a minute like the more I learn about I'm like oh my goodness this is why everything was so hard this is why I had to pretend in school that it wasn't as hard as it was like so I'm like that whole masking thing I think of it in that term like I've been doing that since I was a teenager oh yeah like and so now in my late 40s I'm like just discovering all of this it's like oh maybe I didn't have to did I not have to do that like could I have just would that have been okay or was that protecting and And when does it stop yes and that's where I'm at now like it's not Maybe it served its purpose m maybe there was a time in my life where I I it helped me yeah protected you maybe yeah yeah exactly but it's not helping me anymore you know it's just holding me back and keeping me thinking like you know a teenager who's just having to work way harder than everybody else to do the same work like it's keeping me stuck there and that's that's what I'm working on working through now to try to take that mask off a little bit and ask the questions and I still struggle i'm better I'm better i do think like it's a work in progress but for sure there's definitely there was a meeting recently that I was on just a couple weeks ago it was like a teamwork training and I literally am like she showed something and I'm like "Okay I should know this this is a silly question but I'm gonna I'm gonna ask her after like and I didn't ask the question in the meeting and I'm like I don't know why and there was no reason like no one would have cared i don't know why it's like that habit it's it's breaking it's like it's like quitting Celsius cold turkey your Red Bull you know and it's like you quit cold turkey and you're just going to get a migraine and like okay I'm going to wean myself off of this it's a good goal no that's a good way to look at it yeah it will take some trial and error I think to Yeah to get especially since it's a life long ingrained habit and it's your it's literally your personality y Yeah i And that is how I feel for myself like I feel like it like literally like you said it goes back to childhood and like it is it is a learned habit of like how much how must I present myself to be accepted and respected and how much can I push back without pushing people away yeah it like standing up for yourself and setting boundaries it does go into like how do I want to rock the boat on this subject and and and do I want to create a confrontation i think that's really It always comes down yeah me too i It always comes down to that and do I want to with this person in particular am I going to create an issue over this is it worth it or do I want to just smile and make it be fine and and sometimes you you know you're outing with a client and maybe you do need to just smile and deal with it later and it'll be there's a professional line for sure right you can't always just walk into everything and get your way get your way no obviously there's a professional line there but at the same time um you know I just I think about another I I think about a person that I have worked with in the past who she was total opposite personality from me you know she just she wasn't an unkind person but she was a very a very stoic a very serious a very downto business person and she I I felt like she tended to get respect more than I do because she would just walk into a room she would walk into a meeting and she would command respect because people didn't know what she was thinking and people assumed she was very intelligent and people would hang because if you show up like that of course you must be people would hang on her every word because they and I'm just this is just the truth i noticed men in particular wanted to gain her like her her respect and like what is she like what is she holding out from me but because I'm a very open I'll tell you anything here's what I'm thinking i'll laugh along with you kind of person they didn't they don't really feel the need like I I I hand out my admiration very easily and you can lose it very easily but I don't make that very clear and so with this person it you know I've always really struggled with that that I'm not willing to be that kind of personality just because it's not true to who you are it's not it would be a different mask it I'm not willing to to be that until I have to right and I can I don't enjoy it but I'm not willing to be that just to gain respect and like commendation and money i'm not willing to do it um but I have seen that that tends to play out better for people um and I hate that that's a truth that is true in this world um but through my life I have learned um how to just kind of slowly through experience kind of stick up for myself there was another job that I worked in years ago where I had gone to college for this for this job and um I had been there for years and this other person came in and uh started working there and we were discussing our pay and they revealed to me that we were getting paid the same amount of money and how long had you been there i had been there for at least a couple years and I had education and she did not and you better believe that was enough i am motivated by rage easily motivated by rage rage and money and uh I marched right up to my boss and was like "Excuse me I have learned that this person is making as much money as me can you explain to me why that is?" And she was so my boss was so angry and was like "Why are you discussing your pay with other people?" And I was like "Um uh not the point because number one it's the law that I can and that's a crazy thing to ask me crazy thing to ask me pay transparency babe and also that's not the point of this conversation i have education and I have seniority here and that's fully insane why are you hiring people off the street she was older than me this person who was new she was she was married and had children and um she was just a much more serious kind of mean person and I was young i was probably 22 and I was single i didn't have any kids and um but I was college educated and had been there for a couple years and I was so angry and so she gave me a raise she angrily gave me a raise and it wasn't even that much of a raise and I was just and she was just like "You're not supposed to be discussing your pay with other people." And I was like I will in fact you've motivated me to march around these halls tell everyone what they're getting paid oh I lit a fire under me but I got I got what I want i did not handle my situation the same way at 22 and I'll tell you throughout my life I have not handled everything that way and I'm not I'm I don't really feel like I necessarily handled that the best way I could have or the most professionally but you went on the other side but what I'm saying is what I'm saying is is I'm like in that situation like that really was unfair to me i'm like there's no reason she should have been making more money than me there's no reason i knew yeah i talked it through the the girl the new girl agreed with me she was like "Oh that's crazy that we're making the same amount of money right there's no reason she agreed she did not have as much experience as me she wasn't college educated she was like I'm brand new to this like that's insane so you know there's times that I have been able to I have learned I learned through that experience like that was really difficult to do but I'm glad I did um and I I I I've taken away from that i I wish I had done it a little differently and not acted in rage but um so I'm not encouraging anyone to go storm their boss right now like please don't do that no that is not the take away i listened to the Free Dive podcast and got fired

please don't that's not our goal here not my goal here but um yeah it's just um I I think my takeaway from it is uh number one the world's not fair and number two I think learning through experience and um how how you how you're being treated and how you should be treating other people is something worth reflecting on because I have caught myself treating other people in ways that I'm like I should not be speaking this person like that i'm I am prejudging them and don't know them well enough and their experience and am I is there a prejudice behind this person because they're older because they're younger because they're male because they're female because they're because they don't dress well to come to the office or whatever like it's it really is there is a lot of prejudice behind those things yeah for sure and then how can you find a balance for your own behavior that still feels like you yes and and be the nice person and be this the silly one or whatever who brings joy and helps the morale and whatnot but at the same time also know your own worth and advocate for yourself whenever you can and that's going to feel uncomfortable if you're not used to doing it for sure it's absolutely going to feel uncomfortable sure but um it starts with respecting yourself and your own value too like you got to you got to dig in okay if this is something I'm not happy about what do I need how do I need to show up differently that still stays within this realm it's a work in progress it is it is like even Isn't that interesting like even being like the ages that we are that it's still like a learning curve yeah because you do still want to be authentic to who you are and I don't want to be a mean person you don't want to be a mean person not that they're mean but just you want to be I want to be myself i don't have the energy to pretend I'm different than I am but you want to be able to command respect yes when you when you decide when Yeah yeah or when you are the one speaking or even see the respect when it is given and not just dismiss it yes because you don't think you deserve it yes that's a good point too so it starts with you it starts with you you can't control how other people are going to respond to you but you can control how you're showing up are you showing up as timid like not sure you should be in the room or are you showing up like okay all questions are valid regardless of how it's going to be taken by other people really wish I had stood up to that guy 20 years ago wish you had to let me go find him find him i remember his first name i don't remember his last name okay i really want to find him are you listening i doubt it come on Deb you should know this one he You know what it is i bet you he didn't know and he needed you to know that's what it was m and so he was he didn't want to have to ask he was deflecting that could be he need that is what that is what a small man would do in that scenario clearly he was a small man because why else speak to you like that people who have actual confidence don't speak to people like that so to do that I'm like he was deflecting to get the attention off of him because he didn't know cuz why else speak to you like that right people who are self assured and like confident they You don't have to speak to people like that right you're right that does typically come from an insecurity right that's a good point there's no reason that he would need to put you down like that wouldn't it be nice to like call him out on that now uh we got to look him up we got to look him up he is old and unhappy somewhere but I want to see it

i need to know i want to make sure i want to make sure of it you are still in my head 20 years later no we're going to burn that out now that we've realized that that is what sits in your head when you don't want to ask a question I think you're going to start asking more questions for sure there's not I I reflecting on the fact that you know when you see other people in meetings asking questions and that the response they get is so positive and like wow great question you're a deep thinker for that one it it it really does just gain you more i did it recently too and I get why it's scary and it shows that you're engaged and it shows that you're a part of the conversation you're paying attention right that is a good point you're participating you are really listening because if you're asking a question it shows that you are really listening to something and you want to understand yeah so that is why I think asking questions is really good if if I if I am running a meeting and someone asks me a question it feels good because it makes me feel like they are really trying to understand what we're talking about right they're engaged they're engaged unless they're asking me some kind of like really patronizing condescending question right but how often how often does that even you know you should know this one Deb like that's different um I did that recently in a meeting like a week or so ago and it was a meeting that had like 75 people in it and I was like I'm really really scared to raise my hand but I did and I felt a little dumb but I also was just like I don't care this is this is I think me asking this question I could I could discern in the convers so someone had asked a question before me and the person running the meeting did not properly answer his question and I could just see that person sitting there just like he was like does that answer it and the person was clearly like and I was like I'm gonna take a bullet here and ask it a different way um because I also still don't fully understand and I feel like this person needs an answer to it and so I was a little bit brave and like this is a different way and I got the answer to our question properly and I felt like I might look a little dumb for this because it it feels like a really basic question i don't care what have I got to prove to these people like Yeah and that's the thing is just not worrying less about how you're being perceived and focus more on if I need this information to do my job well i need to get the information that's literally part of the job is I need to understand this i need to get this information and if that means asking a question in order to do it then you got to be willing to put yourself out there and not not worry or assume that every person's going to show up like that condescending jerk manager at the end of the day because they're not all like that like they're not all like that and we're fortunate we don't often get treat we do not often get treated like that here i think we're kind of just talking in like we're not really we're not talking about sep talking about universal experience baggage that we've had and not even just in the corporate setting but in life setting you know like I said like just being friends with being anywhere just in all kinds of relationships and being out in the world and how you know there's a difference in how you get treated even at the grocery store like by people based on how you present yourself and behave i mean I mean you can experiment with it for yourself if you show up in sweatpants somewhere and you show up in a dress somewhere like you get treated differently by people people holding the door for you you know it's like it it is just a thing that exists in this world and it often is unfair and I'm not even just talking about women like I said I'm mentioning like uh you know older people and younger people and all all we can do is speak about our own experience right like I can only speak as a 36 year old woman and my experiences and if I I would love it if people would comment on their own experiences with all different kinds of people are you a nice person that's kind of had it are you a mean person are you one that commands the room when you come in how do you do it tell us your ways i would love to hear from men and like men that have experiences with how they're treated i'd love to hear from older people are they perceived a certain way is that like this this goes for everybody this isn't just a oh listen to our plight like you said like this is we can be checking ourselves too am I pass am I thinking that person's asking a dumb question yeah I should we should I if I had thought this through I think followup said it's a good idea i should I could have kind of pulled everyone in the company because we have so many different ages and um personalities personalities and races and everything here like people who have different countries yeah like I could have got a lot of diversified answers I think on how people feel they are perceived and treated um so maybe a follow-up would be a good idea i feel like this was just kind of a good conversation starter because I feel like we both are kind of aligned in that we are both the funny nice girl and and how that has really affected both of us or little or little we're both little we both look young and yeah I do think that yeah it I there's been perks to it too do not get me wrong i I get treated very well because of it often at times too yeah like but professionally it can be hard sometimes professionally it can be hard sometimes and it has been a lot so I feel like it's a good it is a good thing to reflect on yeah so share your thoughts share your thoughts leave comments wherever you're listening or watching and maybe we can let us know if you want a follow-up episode is this a worthwhile conversation to continue yeah I think it is i do too yeah i like chatting with you Christie me too this was much more you know on the rails from the last one i feel like we stayed on we We And that was a perfect example that episode showed us being a little ridiculous and just fun and having a good time with it and like I said if you came back and listened to this conversation we are also multifaceted people who know how to have a serious conversation also exactly we know things we do know things they don't know that by the way we have experience we have experience i have to ask you a question before we go okay um this is get to know the team member you need like sparkles i need sparkles on the screen you need something that comes on the screen a little slide through meet the team member i'm I'm trying all kinds of new stupid little graphics and see if I remember who works here again emojis and stuff okay so which team member which team member uh so which team member enjoys listening to medical podcasts while creating art

maddie

who else creates art medical podcast which team member enjoys listening to medical podcasts while creating art

annalin Medical Creating Art erica no how many are good those are good those are good i'm thinking of our I'm going through our creative team am I on the right track by going through our creative team this person is I guess technically on the creative team yeah okay technically not really so if you say technically that means not really they're on the outer branches of it kevin how many people do you want me to guess i How many do you want to guess i don't they are um a remote worker okay and they're female yuri ah it's Yuri yes she is on the creative team she does okay ah Yuri that's interesting yeah i didn't know she was a podcast lady i don't know if she listens yuri are you listening ah we're talking comment if you're listening you know what i bet she will because Christine So Christina shout out Christina christina's awesome she's been helping um yes on the We I finally have a team yay i finally have a podcast team um and because you valued your time and your worth and you said "I can't do this alone." And that's okay and she's like gift from God because she's been amazing and she has such a amazing strategy brain when it comes to the podcast and has come up with amazing ideas and she's my little spreadsheet lady and um topics and games and she when you sent me her spreadsheet to look over I'm like dang girl she's got it together so we have Okay so we have fun fun episodes with amazing Christina ideas coming so excited about it so if you're into all of this keep listening keep listening cuz we've got we've got fun stuff coming yeah don't shut us off yet it's not always off the rails if you like if you like the off the rail ones comment below because we can give them fun they're more fun to film i got to be honest but we got to offer value sometimes I guess and photos of Tim

oh man okay good chatting with you guys thank you for coming back again yes come back soon we didn't run out of time this time we didn't but I do have to get on a call so okay we are uh signing off yeah okay see you guys next time bye bye