Next Level: Kayla Sue Roberts on Gaming & Social Media Marketing

In this episode of the FreeDive podcast, we’re joined by Kayla Sue Roberts, a social media marketer with a passion for gaming and influencer marketing. From her start as a marketing coordinator during the pandemic to freelancing with top clients in the gaming and eSports world, Kayla has built her career with resilience, grit, and a keen eye for trends. She shares the story of her journey, highlighting lessons learned from hands-on experience and her natural talent for sales honed in corporate banking.

Join us as Kayla delves into:

• How she used real-world experience and mentorship to fast-track her success in social media marketing
• The highs and lows of freelancing, from building a niche client list to finding the right clients
• Networking tips for making connections in the gaming industry
• Insider insights on the power of influencer marketing and how she identifies the best gaming influencers for brands
• The dedication it takes to stay up-to-date with social media platforms, gaming trends, and client needs
• Fighting burnout with self care

With deep expertise in the gaming community and a natural knack for knowing how to engage the right audiences, Kayla’s insights offer valuable takeaways for anyone looking to break into marketing, grow their freelance business, or understand the world of gaming and influencer marketing.

Follow Kayla Sue:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Additional Links:

• eSports
• Twitch

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Chapters

• 1:36 Kayla's Journey Into Marketing
• 3:56 Resources and Networking to Grow
• 6:26 Finding Clients You Love
• 9:28 Maintaining Your Own Social Media
• 11:11 Gamer Marketing
• 13:28 Social Media Burnout
• 15:11 Taking Risks in Your Career
• 17:26 Sales and Marketing
• 19:06 Women and Gamers
• 23:31 Advice for Young Women in Marketing
• 25:11 Being Taken Seriously in Social Media
• 26:51 Using AI to Your Advantage
• 28:36 Creator and Influencer Marketing
• 31:44 Using AI for Marketing Pitches
• 33:41 Advice for New Marketers
• 36:26 The Importance of Self Care
• 39:06 Connect with Kayla

Transcript

welcome back to another episode of the free dive podcast I am your host Kristy Billingslea and I'm very excited because I have a special guest today Kayla Sue Roberts hi Kayla Hi how are you I'm good thank you so much for being here today um I have known Kayla for many years I was so excited that she agreed to be on the podcast uh Kayla's going to talk to us today about social media marketing um and I'm going to just kind of let you tell your own story here Kayla um yeah we've done we've done a several Series in the past of just cool women in marketing and just kind of the highs and lows of being in marketing so I was kind of pick your brain about the things you love and hate about marketing and also just social media in general because I I personally have such an interest in social media and how awesome and terrible that can be so I wanted to pick your brain about all of those things so um we can start I just want to start about a little bit of your history in working in marketing can you give us some background on your history in that yeah I kind of stumbled into marketing um right during covid I had found myself without work and someone that I know reached out to me about a marketing coordinator position um at a social media marketing agency and I was like I think I can do that and you know what I didn't really have a lot of options so I was like if at the very least it'll be good experience and I'll see you know where it goes and um before you knew it it was like six months in they were like we want to promote you to a social media manager and I said okay that's great and I just have been ever since taking in as much knowledge as I can I did not go to college I do not have any sort of um you know education behind me or marketing degree so um just getting that hands-on experience is something that I've tried to take advantage of and um the agency that I uh work for you know we do a lot more than just soci social media marketing of course so um I've been able to really you know Network and get my hands in on uh multiple different things PR side of things and um really where my strongest interest lies is in the influencer um Creator marketing side of things yeah and even more specifically in the gaming industry okay so um gaming is a big interest of mine it never it hasn't always been but but you know what you pick up new hobbies uh throughout your life and especially during Co that's where exactly what happened and um so right now I'm I'm a freelancer uh so I have several different clients in the gaming and Esports industry um and that's where I really that's where my passion is that's where I really Thrive um so yeah just building up that like own clientele has been uh a journey and you know definitely come with challenges uh but it's very rewarding I mean I love being able to work for myself and um you know again kind of cherry-pick the clients that I want to work with too you know I'm I'm I'm working with these great companies and people in the space that I like live and breathe of gaming so it's it's been really really rewarding yeah that just brought up so many questions for me um I guess the first being you're talking about not you know you didn't go to like traditional like schooling for this you taught a lot yourself and you networked how did you figure out how to do that how did you find resources and education for yourself because sometimes people think well everyone knows how to use social media you just everyone has social media but it's not like that when you're doing it professionally and especially for someone else's business so how did you figure out how to teach yourself and how did you figure out how to network yeah I mean I definitely learned a lot from some really great people at um my marketing agency that were you know senior to me and just was honest with them like hey you know this is new to me but I bring AB andc to the table AB andc is I have a really strong background in sales um I worked in corporate banking for six years before I got into the marketing field so you know really marketing is all about selling in the end so uh I have that just like innate ability to sell ice to an esimo so that's been something that has really kind of helped Propel me uh because you know yeah I don't I don't come with the fanasy marketing degree or anything but I do come with some really uh innate skills that are hard to teach and Al some some of them impossible to teach so I've I've tried to take advantage of that and again just learning from people around me and um also just taking advantage of you know the a lot of free education out there I know this might come with some you know stigmas or whatever but YouTube university has been incredible incredible yeah it really has and you know just honestly watching with social media especially um because it's ever changing nobody knows everything about it right we're all trying to figure out the algorithms on our own um you know looking and deep diving into the analytics Behind These accounts that I'm seeing that are successful and I'm like how did they do this what are they doing that is making them successful how can I replicate this for my clients yeah and that's been really really helpful is um you know just being observant and you know knowing that the trends are constantly changing they're going to change with or without you so you got to do what you can to stay on top of what's going on in the fields yeah no that's great and you mentioned like getting to Cherry pick your clients and that's something that we've talked about a lot on the podcast and just internally and how you get to that place where you don't have to work with people that you don't like you don't you don't really agree with their you know right their Vibe the way that they do their business how did you get to that place how did you find cuz that feels really intimidating like figuring out how to how to find clients especially when you're you're working freelance you rely on having a certain amount of clients uh you know so how did you find clients how did you find the right clients so because gaming is very Niche and everything that's what makes it great trying to find your own clients in that market is because you know I bring I bring a knowledge and skill set to the table that you know is a little bit harder to find so I'm not there's not a lot of competition like the people that are in competition with me know nothing about gaming but I do so that works you know okay um but networking through um you know you need to know where your target uh client is and for me that's Twitter okay Twitter is huge in the gaming industry um people use it almost like a LinkedIn um so I've just kind of made a little presence for myself there in those communities that I want to you know Target clients in um and just tried to build up my portfolio from there I've also had a couple really good mentors in the Esports and gaming space that um have you know helped me out with hey I I know this person they're you know doing this abnc they might need someone to help them with this and I've worn a lot of hats with some of the different um you know contracts that I've gotten like for for example I have one Esports organization where I solely write uh blogs for their website you know writing might not be my favorite thing that I do with social media marketing but having that client which is a very bigname client in the space has helped me get other clients right so I've been able to say yeah I work for this giant Esports organization and they say okay that's amazing and it just builds up that credibility you know what I mean sometimes I feel like you do have to take maybe some gigs or jobs that aren't your favorite or you know you might even get paid very little yeah but the experience and the you know note on your resume is is what where the value lies um so yeah just trying to network myself and almost know that every time I post on Twitter it's kind of an ad for people know like in The Gaming Community the very Niche side of the gaming community that I'm in um they know my name they know what I do and it's all due to just you know my own social media marketing you know because I'm maret Market yourself so and that was my next question so it sounds like there's probably quite a bit of time that you have to spend maintaining your own social media in order to stay relevant for your clients is that true yeah that's definitely true that's definitely true um and you know I I feel like I'm probably like a lot of people where I go through highs and lows of motivation in that regard you know sometimes I'm like okay I could sign five new clients this month like if I really put my mind to it I could do it and I've had times before where that has happened yeah but then you know there's other months where I'm like you know what I'm good I'm just going to sit back and I'm happy with what I got on my plate right now but as a freelancer you kind of have to always be looking at who the next client is you know because things change in the drop of a hat so yeah um yeah definitely you know spending whatever time you can on your own you know building up your own brand uh has been helpful it's hard to do so though sometimes when you've got a lot on your plate yeah and that is kind of making me it's provoking another question for me it sounds like you have to do a wide array of different kind of things you were talking about writing you kind of would have to know all the social media platforms are you doing more are you doing any kind of like website work are you doing anything else in the are or you just kind ofing yeah I've I mean I've done some website development it's not my strength uh it's not I I I don't actively go out and and seek out those type of um clients or gigs but um what I've found back to the influencer Creator side of things um that's what I really enjoy is um so let me give you an example you know streamers play games on Twitch and that's huge um fortnite I'm not sure if you've heard of fortnite the video game yep it's very big right now because um they've launched a program essentially where uh people can publish their own games on the fortnite platform and people can play them there are Mill hundreds of millions of players each each month that visit fortnite and play fortnite so you can Market your games to this free player base basically um so what's happening and I really feel like it's just getting started um but brands are catching on to this and they're saying wow this is great okay our Target demographic is you know people between the ages of 18 and 24 they're playing this video game I can reach hundreds of millions of people through marketing my game in fortnite and my brand to them so they're actively looking for creators to play their games on stream which then gives them all of that exposure um but they don't necessarily know which streamers are best for them or best for their brand I am very well immersed in the streaming Community I know you know all the big names and you know what their strength you know what their um audience likes because again you know you don't want to just throw money at any streamer just because they have views might not be your Target demographic for your brand um but in that influencer marketing side of things I'm able to identify who the best streamers would be for them to work with um and why interesting yeah yeah it is very interesting you kind of have to kind of keep up to date with the scene and who's on it and what's going on and who's relevant that alone is work in itself huh it is but because it's something I'm interested in yeah it just is it's I know this stuff anyway you know what I mean it's like I'm going to be following these streamers anyway so now I'm using it to bring value to the table Yeah know and so do you get burnt out on just using social media in general because you you know you enjoy it for yourself you have to do it for work yeah definitely that's why I I honestly woke up like last week and I woke up and I was like I actually really hate social media I really hate it I what am I like I don't like it but I love marketing and I love all the things I've learned and I love you know different parts but I'm like social media is terrible right now and it's probably also the time of year and everything that's going on in the world I'm sure um but you know it's it's a it can be a really dark and sad place and to have to spend so much time on it especially with um you know just having a just having a client where you manage their social media you know I'm on six different platforms a day posting for them and that's a lot and then on top of that you know trying to stay up with everything that's going on in the gaming scene and then also keeping up on my own social media it you get burnt out and that's why I'm really trying to make more of a focus on um just the parts of social media marketing that I really enjoy you know and uh you know you got to do what makes you happy at the end of the day you got to do what makes you happy and I've always been very well aware of like okay if I wake up in the morning day after day and I'm not excited to get to work I'm you know not feeling fulfilled I know when it's time to move on and kind of make a change make a change and I'm not afraid to do that I take a you know I've taken a lot of risks over the years with my career you know um so before I started in in uh marketing I had started an event planning business um it was going really well I was able to quit my full-time banking job to run this event planning business and then covid hit so but I knew when you know I was like okay I'm G to take this risk like I'm GNA see where this where these events go maybe maybe it's going to you know end in a year or two but I'm going to learn along the way I learned a lot with the event planning um and it just you know it just adds to your skill set you just have to be always prepared for the next opportunity what might happen and and just take it as they go you know I just I've never been I've just never been afraid to take you know risks I guess so yeah yeah it sounds like that's probably really helped the ability to just kind of stay calm make a change know that something different will come yeah TR and social media social media there's always change so everything's con and that annoys me very often just how often you have to keep up with the CH and going back to what you were saying about burnout I I feel like that all the time like there's times when my personal social media like I just want to there's times I'm just like I want to be able to delete all these apps off my phone for myself I want to be able to deactivate my Instagram for a while deactivate my Tik Tok for a while and just disappear and I can't because I run our social medias and I very often I want I want to Disappear Completely go off the grid no one know what's going on with my life and I can't because I have to put my face on C Point Instagram and that just sucks sometimes because I'm just like man I literally cannot Escape because it's my work it is is that how you sometimes feel yeah definitely I mean even when I go on vacation I still have to post for my clients like there's no it's not like you can just be like hey I'm going to be gone yeah see yeah you know nope I'm still still got to post for you know I can't even disconnect you know even on vacation yep y you said that you like to just um lean into the parts of it that you enjoy make you happy what are the part parts that you enjoy make you happy yeah so I mean I again I'm just like a natural salesperson I just always have been ever since I was a kid I would like you know do commercials and you know just try to sell anything I mean I always had a lemonade stand every summer like it was like I have an entrepreneurial Drive in me um I remember you being on that car commercial yes oh my gosh yes throwback y um yeah just always have been just like an a natural salesperson I guess so when interests me about you know marketing is I love thinking about you know getting inside the mind of who who this who the Brand's Target customer is yeah you know if I'm that Target customer how do I want to be sold to how do I want to be marketed to and then you know flipping the strategy in that way I really like the creative strategic side um of marketing uh I think that that would be definitely my favorite I love copyrighting that's fun that's part of it you know what I mean is um you know being able to write compelling copy where you're selling and they don't even know they're being sold to yeah you know I like that that's fun for me um yeah yeah that would be a couple main ones there is there any um like looking back in past like the recent recent past or long ago like that a certain um like campaign or a certain job that you've done that like has really stuck out that you really loved or that you're really proud of so um one of my clients is a all women's gaming Association and they we just wrapped up the largest fortnite live tournament last weekend um I was part of the whole the whole project which is really great because this Esports organization didn't have someone um on their te team that knew enough about fortnite which that was the game um they didn't know about enough about fortnite to pitch this tournament to Big Brands such as Dove cash app um and so they brought me on they knew again I think a lot from my self marketing on Twitter of myself um they said this girl knows what's going on let's get in contact with her so they brought me on as a consultant to um basically come up with the tournament structure uh come up with the ideas that we would pitch to the brands because again this was um an idea behind making a game in fortnite that was branded so opportunities for um the brand to reach hundreds of millions of players um so I got to provide a lot of creative Direction on that they actually like fully trusted me with these pitches and I was like okay let's do it like yeah I can do this you know what sometimes you got to fake it till you make it you really do you really do and especially you know I know I don't come with a fancy marketing degree but I have experience I have a lot to bring to the table and as long as I go into those meetings knowing that yeah and having that confidence behind me no one would even know that I don't have a marketing degree so you know even know yeah um so yeah and you know uh that's been really great so that was a historic uh Esports event that um ended up happening it all wrapped up last weekend um and it was great because it was all about women in gaming and empowering these uh women players uh because again you know it's really underrepresented in the Esports and gaming space um so that was really really fulfilling yeah wow yeah that sounds cool especially just like working like for other women like sometime like that's another topic like we've talked about so much this year it's just like how I I feel like we've gotten further away from it but just somehow sometimes how women don't get taken quite as seriously and so being able to work with and for women like is just extra special is that something that you've run into much like uh being a woman working in marketing like do you just do your ideas not get taken as seriously or is there anything like that that you've run into yeah absolutely so um especially in the gaming space okay like it can be very toxic for women um unfortunately because you know you are a lot of the you know gamers are young men that just have not developed a strong respect for women yet and they um you know unfortunately that just translates into the um you know people that are are employed in the gaming space um yeah I remember I had i' signed with one client and um you know sharing ideas back and forth and I couldn't even believe some of like the responses I was getting to my ideas and then a man would come up with the same exact idea like a few like lines down the thread and uh I'd be like like yeah I did I did say that about three emails ago but okay let's just you know and it you know again it's I love being in charge of my own clients because I can walk away from any project if I want to you know what I mean I can I can have that um say of hey I'm not feeling respected here yeah I don't think that our uh Visions align yeah se you know separate the ties um but yeah it's it is kind of crazy that still in this day and age like we're still having to deal with that disparen there with you know how men and women are treated um it's too bad what would you recommend to other like especially younger women entering the field of marketing like how how to deal with that kind of thing how to kind of push through it so I mean of course always be respectful but just don't be afraid to stand up for yourself because at the end of the day that's that's all you have you know you got to stand up for yourself um you know I've had one client in the past who just a very strong headed leader which is fine you know I totally get that um but you know we've gone head-to-head on some things before where you know he's been really rude to me or whatever and um I'm just not afraid to politely but also confidently state where I stand on things and um again yeah just advocating for yourself like don't be afraid to you know if you feel like you're just getting walked all over like no no it's not worth it at the end of the day um you know and there's so many opportunities out there I know it can be scary to think like oh you know I don't want to stand up for myself because what if lose this job or what if something happens you know yeah that might happen it might happen yeah but there's something else out there there is there's always going to be another another door another opportunity it's it's at the end of the day it's worth um you know investing in yourself first and caring for your your needs first yeah you don't have to settle for the disrespect or even less than treatment yeah exactly yeah we don't deserve that no one deserves that so and on a similar but different thread it it had me thinking too do you ever this is how I sometimes feel so I'm wondering if you sometimes feel working in social media especially do you ever feel like you don't get taken quite as seriously because that's what you do for work because people think oh you do social media for a job that's not a real job because everyone does social media you're just playing for work right yeah definitely I definitely have felt that before it's hard sometimes just explaining to people that are outside of our marketing world like even what I do or you know what we do and you know people do have their own ideas of what it is yeah um but yeah I also I also you know don't necessarily care too much what people think at the end of the day that's good can be a good thing and a bad thing about me I just don't care yeah when the bank rolles coming in do you think what you want yeah it's like you could think what you'd like I don't really care but um yeah and I think it's just you know just some people just there's no they just don't know you don't know what you don't know that's right yeah that's right yeah you're you're going on Instagram every day and so you have this perception that oh well I do that I could I could do that I could do that when you're not you don't understand that there's so much actual work behind it there's so much strategy behind it there real really is a process Behind Video creation and copyrighting and just like every time the timing of posting timing everything there's so much behind it besides just like opening Instagram opening Tik Tok open yeah it's not as simple otherwise everyone would do it for sure you know yeah yeah yeah for sure so um especially thinking about uh just the future of marketing especially thinking about AI like how are you picturing um marketing moving into the future like where do you want to put yourself in that future picture yourself so I don't know how you feel about AI but I love AI I have a lot of opinions I have for For Better or For Worse Better or Worse better or worse so far I really love AI good um just because it it makes my workflow a lot faster and easier and for me being a freelancer hey if I can you know get more done in less amount of time that's time time is money so um yeah it's good that way um I think there's definitely people don't understand that you have to be skilled to use it you have to understand how to use AI to make it work the right way um it is funny like I just I love like just scrolling through social media and just watching how many even bigname brands are using AI because you can just tell through their copy yeah um it is kind of crazy because you you know like a lot of these big companies they are definitely saving money by you know not necess I mean you have to still have someone that knows how to use AI to use AI but I'm sure there's a lot of um budget cuts that can be found through the use of AI so it's interesting to see how some of these bigger Brands and everything are using it and it's going to be interesting to see how it all unfolds um but the future marketing I mean I'm probably biased because I you know again I'm in the Esports and gaming space but I really think uh Creator and influencer marketing is just the new wave um especially you know with it's called ufn by the way the the um program that people are creating these games for fortnite on um I really feel like it's uh going to be a huge huge New Wave in marketing because you know so for example um this movie came out recently and as part of that movie's budget they paid a gaming studio to create a map for them uh that they can publish in fortnite a whole branded experience it almost puts you in the movie itself um markets that movie for them so it's just another way for them to use their marketing dollars and reach more and more people so um I mean the the crazy huge brands that are creating in fortnite now it's like and it only just was released a couple years ago this um software so I really feel like that's just getting started and I'm very immersed in it so I'm I'm really hoping that I'm getting in at the right time you know what I mean get like I'm taking advantage of okay I see the potential here um you know so I'm trying to trying to ride that wave and see where it takes me yeah we we've had a lot of people give pretty similar responses to that like AI is here to stay you might as well adapt to it you might as well use it for your benefit like you said time is money so if you can make it work for you why not like you might as well educate yourself on it because it I think it does really speed up workflows like yeah if you know how yeah if you know how to like give it the right prompts and everything it can definitely make your day to just day-to-day work easier that's that's what I found um you know I think I like I said I've seen a lot of brands that are probably relying on it too much because it's very obvious that they're using AI yeah um so I think you definitely there's a fine line where you have to be careful um and make sure that you're still bringing creativity in everything that you do and it's not copy and pasted and yeah human element human element exactly yeah because it's not going to be able to replace the the human element or I mean at least right now I don't know where it's gon to go but um at least where it's at right now there's still you need to you know people talk about you know losing your job to AI or whatever so in order to do that you got to still find ways to continually bring value to the table and what you do um because if you just rely on AI your chat gbt built and No One's Gonna you know think that you're any different than any other candidate you know what I mean if you yeah you know that's a great point bring true skills to the table and that human element so yeah that's a great point is there are there any particular AI tools that you really like using I really just just use chat gbt for my workflow and everything um I used for those the marketing pitches for that um tournament I did use AI generated images because um trying to explain to a brand yeah we're going to build a map for you in fortnite they don't know what that looks like they know what that what does that even mean right yeah so I was able to get nice um generated images of showing what their brand would look like in fortnite in a map so that that visual was huge for those pitch decks um I wouldn't have been able to do it without AI right like I mean what I that would have I just wouldn't have been able to do it so um I think there's definitely definitely value in using it the right way yeah wow that's a great I wouldn't have even thought to use it for or something like that but that's a great example of a way to use it that's not that's you know some something that you couldn't have done you not kind of draw it out yourself and but you couldn't find a photograph of that so yeah exactly yeah yeah because the only other way to show like the visual behind what a map would look like is to actually have the map built and that's too much work so for for a pitch you know what I mean so right or to try to make the graphics yourself how long that would take like just exactly and I was able to do it you know in a very short amount of time with you know a pretty decent I don't remember which program it was now actually but um yeah so kind of getting creative with it and like I said or like you said it's here to stay so can kind of work with it or work against it and I think it's just easier to work with it right um at least where where we're at now with with AI yeah not be afraid of it yeah yeah yeah so um thinking about just like marketing Journey social media marketing if someone wanted to get started in a career like yours uh looking back and learning from things you've done well mistakes that you've made like what advice would you give someone entering this field yeah um I mean entry level positions are great because you can just learn so much um with all the tasks that you're thrown so I was first hired as a marketing coordinator um which was great you know I got to that was where a lot of like the podcast stuff came in you know I was able to set up guests and set up agendas and um uh also finding you know good content to like clip and post um for the social media managers that I was working for um yeah I mean if you can get in with like an entrylevel position don't be afraid to do that um and also don't be afraid to just say I'm willing to learn you know I might not know this right now but I am eager willing to learn and um also just even if you know you don't see your your end role you know doing so say say I you know was working on um email sequencing you know no I don't that's not what I want to do at the end of the day but learning that having that under my belt can help you get the next opportunity you know yeah yep yeah I just think have an open mind and you know again take in what knowledge you can from the people around you um that's that's what's been invaluable is like all right learn from the people that have either the type of career that you want um and yeah don't be afraid to reach out for that mentorship it requires a level of humility I think for sure you don't know it does yeah because you do have to admit like I don't know everything and especially in marketing social media marketing no one knows everything because it's always changing so it's it's okay to you know not not be aware of a certain Trend that might be happening or like you know a feature on Instagram that might be new and it's like oh I didn't even know that was a thing but hey it's okay teach me about it like let's learn let's use it yeah um yeah it does definitely take humility on that that end do you have any thoughts or advice or what's worked well for you on you know going back to talking about burnout because you know you mentioned like there's always something there's like there's it's a never ending to-do list working in marketing especially social media you're talking about how you're always working on it even when you're on vacation there's always a new tick tock Trend and new audio sound to use how do you avoid becoming super burnt out yeah I mean you can't pour from an empty cup is that what the saying is y you truly can't so before I can give my best to my clients I sometimes need to recharge and I'm not afraid to admit that um you know I've haven't been afraid to tell my bosses before hey I if I don't like take the afternoon for myself it's not going to be good so yeah yeah you know and just um also remembering at the end of the day because it's easy to get stressed and especially when you have clients that you have to keep happy and everything the end of the day just tell myself sometimes nothing is ever that big of a deal yes it's never that big of a deal no marketing emergency no it's not and it's not worth you losing your you know mental sanity over um at the end of the day and if you're finding yourself day after day burnt out maybe it's time to move on maybe there maybe there's something else that that you should be um you know looking into to do um setting boundaries you know yes oh yes yeah it's okay to set those boundaries because again at the end of the day if I am not fully charged for you know myself I'm my clients aren't going to get the best of what I have to offer so that's really you know self-care isn't selfish it um it's actually a loving thing because you want to be able to bring the best to people in all respects of your life right you want to be able to be your best at any time um and sometimes it involves being selfish and caring for yourself first yeah critical even like critical when you reach that level yeah definitely yeah I have found myself just being like I must turn my phone off I must put on Do Not Disturb I don't care what notifications or chat messages or text messages are coming I I've literally reached a point where I'm like I cannot respond yeah no absolutely I've definitely of course I've gone back now but I've had times before where I've like completely turned off like my email notifications from a certain time to a certain time yeah they're back on but you know if I need to turn them off again they will go off because I'm just I again nothing's that urgent like we it can wait till tomorrow or it can you know it's okay like it's it's all gon to be all right yeah no I think that's really good advice setting setting boundaries taking care of yourself I feel like that's yeah really good yeah for sure uh any final thoughts for us any more beautiful words for this was this was a nice little conversation I feel like it was um how do we how do how does everyone find you what are your plugs what are your socials Twitter is my main uh my main plug and it's K Kayla Su media okay so feel free to follow me on there um um yeah that's that's my main my main uh social network if I had to choose just one I'd probably just keep Twitter I know that sounds crazy especially with Twitter changes and stuff that interests me a lot actually because Twitter's the one of the ones I fight hardest with oh I know well you know what I like about it so far is I don't get sucked down the rabbit hole of uh videos on there yet okay that's that's kind of a good thing about it so far but I'm sure that'll change so okay no that makes that actually makes a lot of sense like you can exit out of it easier yeah I was even on LinkedIn last night and I'm like I got sucked into the videos and I was like LinkedIn is not supposed to be video Centric like what is happening yeah you don't Doom scroll as easily yeah huh that's a good point okay well everyone go find Kayla on Twitter make sure you follow her appreciate it oh this is awesome Kayla thank you thank you so much I'd love to have you back again sometime I'm sure everyone else would too so yeah kind of in a transition or transitionary phase right now so we'll see what my next opportunity is and yeah maybe we'll do a little followup we'll see all right sounds good thank you so much for being here yeah no problem we'll see everyone next time see you